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Talk:Joe (Day 1)
I started a similar discussion for Charles McLemore about this. We need to change this guy's status to unknown since not only did we get evidence that he was at the compound, but we never even saw him, so he could've been one of the many casualties of the compound assault. What does anyone else think? --ASHPD24 17:26, January 30, 2011 (UTC) RE: status change Since my last edit got screwed up somehow, I'd still like to discuss this guy's status change. --ASHPD24 17:28, January 30, 2011 (UTC) :I'm not 100% that the unknown status would be appropriate: :1) Although Gaines asked over the phone if he knew where Eli was, I wouldn't say that was conclusive proof that he was on site. :2) When you say many casualties of the compound assault, there were only 2 (excluding Gaines and Neill). The 3 men blown up by Alexis Drazen were, I believe, all present at the scene when Gaines spoke to Joe on the phone. :Obviously it is a grey area, but I think that the unknown status is reserved for people we know were in real danger of death the last time we saw them. But it's an interesting point, and I'd be curious as to what other people think--Acer4666 17:41, January 30, 2011 (UTC) :4 casualties - the 2 dead blokeys who got blown up by Jack. There could've been more, however. And plus, we did see Pollock, and he wasn't present with Kevin when his men got blown up, though his status is still unknown. And plus, he could very well have been one of the guys Jack blew up. --ASHPD24 18:01, January 30, 2011 (UTC) ::Sorry yes I said 2 excluding Gaines and Neill, meaning there are only 2 casualties that could be Joe. And I think Pollock status should be alive - he couldn't have been blown up by Jack as he appeared after that happened, he wasn't killed by Alexis, and there was no mention of any casualties during the arrests.--Acer4666 18:05, January 30, 2011 (UTC) ::So should we change Joe's status to unknown because we don't know if he was one of the 2 guys blown up by Jack? And should we also change the statuses of Ralph Rosen and Jenson because they also weren't blown up by Jack or Alexis (but they were still shown on mugshots so they were definitely arrested) --ASHPD24 18:18, January 30, 2011 (UTC) :::Hm, as I say Joe is a grey area - there is a 2/15 (or something) chance that he was blown up, if he even was at the compound in the first place, I'd personally say to leave it as alive but I'll be interested what others think. :::Ralph Rosen is only tangentially linked to Gaines, and is unlikely to have ever been at the compound. Those snapshots are mugshots of previous offences (Rosen's one says 'Verde Police Department') so him and Jenson were not definitely arrested - so Rosen I think should be alive, with Jenson there's an argument for unknown. I am currently working on documenting all of Gaines' baddies here, it's very much a work in progress but I'll put up pics of the extras soon to figure out some of these mysteries. From what we see of Jenson and Maxton I would say they are alive, but it's a tough one to call--Acer4666 19:02, January 30, 2011 (UTC) :::But there's no conclusive evidence on any of it. If there were no extra casualties I would say Joe is alive, but since there were that means it's unconfirmed since he's never seen. And if that is Maxton in the photo that would likely mean he was also alive since I didn't see anyone with a bandana and long hair getting blown up at the storage shed. As for the mugshots, I would assume that all of the people on there had been identified at the compound, and most were arrested I assume. --ASHPD24 19:25, January 30, 2011 (UTC) ::::Well like I say I was under the impression unknown status was reserved for people in danger of death last time we saw them. Joe may never have been in the compound as Gaines just spoke to him over the phone. Maxton, Jenson, Ralph Rosen, Pollock can be seen to be not part of the 5 unnamed men blown up on screen. No other casualties were referred to. Peterson (Day 1) is the only characters I would say has an unknown status - the rest I would have as alive. But thats just my opinion--Acer4666 19:35, January 30, 2011 (UTC) ::::Actually though, it was confirmed Joe was at the compound, because Gaines told him this."Joe, where's Eli at?" Not likely for Gaines to be calling an associate not at the compound to ask whereo ne of his men who was at the compound was. Joe definitely was there, likely close to the storage room. --ASHPD24 19:52, January 30, 2011 (UTC) :::::Hm, like I said in my first post, I didn't consider that to be conclusive proof, but now I think maybe you're right. I actually think Joe was meant to be one of the guards next to Gaines, not the guy on the phone, ie in the middle of his convo Gaines turns to a guy next to him and says 'hey joe where is eli', but the line is badly edited on so Gaines turns his head halfway through the line,making it that Joe is the guy on the phone. But anyways, now we have: :::::Unknown - Peterson and Joe :::::Alive - Maxton, Ralph Rosen, Jenson, Pollock :::::Do you agree with that? I think we should wait for other people to weigh in before changing anything--Acer4666 20:18, January 30, 2011 (UTC) :::::I agree with that. Let's wait for others to weigh before it's changed first. --ASHPD24 20:38, January 30, 2011 (UTC) The progress you guys have made on these topics is awesome. After re-watching the scenes carefully, I agree with all the conclusions you guys have reached. Alive: # POLLOCK — definitely alive. He appeared after the van explosion and was not among the 3 that were bombed by Alexis. I am disappointed I didn't see this myself. # MAXTON — assuming that the image is correct, which seems to be the case, I agree he is alive too. # JENSON — the man in the Jenson mugshot was not among the 5 killed in the explosions. # ROSEN — alive because there is no evidence he was even working for Gaines to begin with. Unknown: Peterson & Joe. Joe could have died in either explosion, and Peterson might have died in the second one. If someone wants to change it all, I think it's still a good idea to keep notes for Pollock, Maxton, and Jenson that the dialogue implied that CTU arrested most or all of Gaines' people. Very great work dudes. 07:28, January 31, 2011 (UTC) :Great. I'll change all of them now. --ASHPD24 13:55, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Actor? We don't heard his voice, but seen the fact the fact that he was at Gaines compund, should we add, unknown actor? --Station7 20:10, September 20, 2011 (UTC) : Was he visible? 03:13, September 21, 2011 (UTC) ::Not as far as I know. --Station7 13:44, September 21, 2011 (UTC) :::When Gaines delivers the line, you can't see who he's talking to. It's highly likely he delivered it to one of the extras who was seen on camera, but there's a slight possibility he was talking to someone who wasn't seen on camera at all, which I guess is why he is mentioned and not unidentifiable. Similar case to Steven, I believe--Acer4666 13:48, September 21, 2011 (UTC)